New Civic Si vs Focus ST - Compare And Contrast

"Thunder" (Thunder)
08/21/2014 at 10:22 • Filed to: Civic, Si, Focus, ST

After doing my due diligence, I think I'll be getting a Civic Si shortly.

I recently posted about potentially getting a new Focus ST3.

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I previously had (and greatly enjoyed) my 2007 Honda Civic Si sedan. So, I felt it was necessary to give it a chance before making a final decision. Last night, therefore, I tried one out.

I found it not nearly as engrossing as the ST, but seeming to exude quality where the Ford does not.

I prefer the seats in the ST by far, both from a materials perspective, and how they hold me and feel. The Honda's cloth seats, with their black/red motif, seem positively low-rent by comparison.

Other than the faux carbon fiber of the Honda dash, it just seemed much more pleasant (for lack of a better term) than that of the Ford. The Honda dash is a touch farther away from the driver than the Ford; I liked the cockpit-feel of the Ford better.

The Honda's tech seems to lag behind that found in the Ford, but I didn't really play with the touchscreen in it as much as I'd like. Personally, I love the dual-level dash of the Si, and especially the almost HUD-like digital speedometer. The gauges up there seem cheesy compared to the Ford's full-color front-and-center display, though.

The Civic doesn't offer HID headlights; the Ford includes them (granted only in the top-line ST3 package). In the Civic, I'll have to get some aftermarket HID-specific projector housings.

Ride quality in the Civic was much improved over the ST. More on that later, but on the ST test drive, we covered a section of road that just rattled our teeth. On the way home from the dealership, we covered the same road in our loaner C250 (my wife's E350 is in the shop for (gasp) a failed rear diff - $2500 to replace). It was smooth as glass, and that C-class is not a particularly smooth riding car.

Perhaps most importantly, power. The Ford is visceral, powerful, with that piped-in growl under acceleration. It's ungodly addictive, and potentially deleterious to my driver's license. Installation of a radar detector would be an immediate requirement. In contrast, the Civic is... restrained. Naturally aspirated of course, higher displacement at 2.4 liters than my '07 was with its 2.0. Lower redline of 7K vs my old one's 8K. Doesn't go 'frantic' at high RPM like my old one did when the VTEC changeover occurred. But doable, at least for now. If the new Si is the answer, then I forsee at least intake, header, and exhaust mods in my future, something I never thought about in my old one. Even though it's quicker than my old one, it doesn't do that "go, go, (VTEC switch) GO GO GO!". It's more like "Go Go Go Go". It's somewhere in between the old one's Jekyll & Hyde schizophrenic personalities.

So, they're different cars. Duh.

Financially, they're extremely close. Focus ST3 is around $30K; 0% for 72 months yields almost exactly $405/mo. Civic Si is around $24K; 0.9% for 60 months yields $410/mo. Paying the ST for an additional year, of course, but at year 5, per Edmund's True Cost of Ownership, the value of the car vs owed amount yields an expected equity that's within a couple hundred dollars of the Si. So financially, they're as close to neck & neck as to be a total wash. Here's a pic of the spreadsheet I used; it's actually set up to be opened on my phone so I can work the calculations on the spot at the dealership. If anyone wants a copy, let me know.

The final deciding factor for me, then, was something that applies to me alone. My wife has eight herniated discs from an accident (not her fault) in 1999. She could not survive riding in the ST, not even for a 10 minute test drive. The Recaros that felt made for me just did not remotely work for her. In contrast, the combination of better ride and seats that could work for her in the Si (not for our 12 hour slogs to and from Florida, but at least for around town) tip the decision for me to the Si.

Quite a long discussion, but this stream of consciousness explanation has actually helped me feel a little better about the decision I'd already arrived at, too.

DISCUSSION (36)

WisconsinGus > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 10:29

I would appreciate a copy of the spreadsheet

Brian Silvestro > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 10:29

So the only thing keeping you from the ST is another person? That sucks.

sellphones2493 > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 10:31

To each their own. I feel like the Civic is outdated and I'm not a fan of the typical Si Owner (no offense).

What about the GTI or Jetta GLI?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 10:31

The ST has non-Recaro seats available you know.

Why not the Fiesta ST?

GTI MkVII > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 10:33

Nice writeup and comparison of these two. Between them, I'd have to go with the ST if I had to choose. And I've been a Honda guy for a long time. The newer Hondas just lack the polish and advancement that they used to have. Your 8th Gen was the last truly great Honda if you ask me. Ever since, their cars have been very bland and uninspired.

That said, I noticed you are taking the ride quality and refinement into great consideration (and rightfully so). When I was planning my next car move a few months back, I had many of the concerns you do and wanted a fun to drive, decently quick car that was also refined and high quality. Neither the Si or the ST did it for me.

I've always been an Audi and VW fan, so the new GTI fit the bill fantastically. Have you taken a look at the Mk7? A nicely specced SE can be had for right in between the prices of the Si and the ST. Granted, there aren't any crazy incentives or rebates like you'll be able to get on the Ford though. Might be worth a look though, as I feel it will offer the refinement you and your wife are looking for, as well as the fun and speed that will guarantee smiles. Plus, the GTI is a very handsome looking car and doesn't give off that boy-racer vibe.

Thunder > Brian Silvestro
08/21/2014 at 10:36

Doesn't suck so much. I did say "I Do" after all. :-o

Thunder > GTI MkVII
08/21/2014 at 10:37

I previously looked at a Golf R (Mk6)... but I've heard enough recommendations of the Mk7 that I will go look at one. That Golf R was pretty darn good up until a highway-speed wiggle of the wheel. When I did so (at the salesperson's direction), it felt like it had 5 PSI in the rear tires. That was the end of my interest in it, unfortunately.

Brian Silvestro > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 10:38

WELL THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM

GTI MkVII > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 10:43

Hm, that doesn't sound quite right. I can assure you the new GTI is a fantastic car. Very stable, with a nice quick steering rack. Minimal to no torque steer - honestly. And the engine is definitely underrated by VW. It's been dyno'd at 210HP at the wheels instead of the crank like VW says. And once the turbo comes in at about 1700 RPM, the thing MOVES. Tons of torque. All while being a nicely refined and mature car that also knows how to have some fun.

And if you can wait a bit, the new R promises to be even better.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro
08/21/2014 at 10:51

Our resident Oppologist here folks! ;)

I need your help. :P

Thunder > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
08/21/2014 at 10:52

I'm a tecchie guy; I want the toys (and navi) that come only on the uplevel ST.

Couldn't find a Fiesta ST, but sat in a standard Fiesta and it was not an ergonomic fit.

Thunder > WisconsinGus
08/21/2014 at 10:55

Any idea how I can get that to you? Doesn't appear I can attach it here.
Maybe I can upload to Google Drive and share it from there.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/21/2014 at 10:55

With what?!

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 10:55

Okay.

Mazda 3 then? Still a better car then the Civic, same size as the Focus.

Thunder > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
08/21/2014 at 10:57

Interesting point.
I had been thinking Mazdaspeed3, maybe, when (if?) they come back out. But if I'm looking at the Naturally Aspirated Civic Si, maybe the Mazda3 should be considered as well.

Edit: only 155 HP max if you want manual transmission, and I definitely do. I think that's insufficient, especially if the Civic Si seemed down enough on power with just over 200.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro
08/21/2014 at 10:57

Find me some damn performance all seasons for the 944! Because I can't. -_-

N51fanatic > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 10:58

i had a spreadsheet worked up like that when i was shopping for a home/mortgage. Everyone who saw it thought i was crazy.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/21/2014 at 11:00

Well I'm on mobile right now, but the most I would do is look on tire rack, but I'm sure you've done that already. Ask YSI, he knows more about wheels/tires than anyone here!

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 11:01

Having driven a few 14 Civic Si's for my job, I have to say that it feels like a grown-up sport compact. It's quick, but not blindingly so. In a normal color like silver, red, or white, with 4 doors, it can be unobtrusive (although when I buy one next year it'll likely have the spoiler taken off or replaced with the low-profile Hybrid spoiler) — especially if you take off the big i-VTEC decals on the side.

It's a good write up. Bravo on consideration for the wife. That's what got me the current Kia Soul.

Anon > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 11:01

My brother drives a 2011 SI and he loves it! He bought it new and has already put 100,000 miles on it without a single issue.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro
08/21/2014 at 11:02

Where may I find him? I need 15" tires, which is the big problem.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 11:02

I can totally relate to this exact comparison...two cars I'm interested in.

That said, Spousal Acceptance Factor is very important, even moreso under these circumstances—it's bad enough when the better half isn't comfortable driving your car, much less riding in it.

So kudos on the thoughtful analysis.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 11:04

Focus/Fiesta ST suspension was designed very squarely for people under the age of "back problems".

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/21/2014 at 11:06

He just shows up.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 11:08

Drive it first before you make a decision.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro
08/21/2014 at 11:10

Fair enough. :P

Thunder > Anon
08/21/2014 at 11:57

Yup - 2011. Last year of the 8th generation. My '07 was the second year of that generation, and the first for the sedan bodystyle.

2012 began the 9th generation. I actually tried to find the last new 2011's, to the point of amazingly locating one in something like mid 2013, calling them up (on the other side of the country - I was ready to go get it immediately if that was required), and finding it had just recently sold. It had been in the entrance of some building at the port where they were delivered or something like that.

I'd buy a new 8th gen in a heartbeat, if they existed. :-(

Thunder > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny
08/21/2014 at 12:00

Thanks.

Other part of the perspective: she cannot drive it. Period. The back problems left her with numbness and weakness in her left leg. She simply cannot modulate a clutch pedal. She did drive some of my former stick shift cars, but there's no chance of it anymore.

Also, the NA nature of the Civic's engine makes it easier to drive it smoothly, another plus for her actually riding in it.

FromCanadaWithLove > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 12:31

I'm a bit late to this post, but you should really take a look at the Jetta GLI if you want a performance sedan in that price range.

The 2015 Jetta is out soon, so I imagine dealers have the GLI reduced quite a bit, since it's based off the Mk6. Also, the seats are great. I've got my own share of back problems, and drove a '11 TDI for three years. They're great seats, just make sure to get real leather since the leatherette cracks easily. Also, get the manual if you can. I had the DSG and had mega transmission problems with the car.

Best of luck. Enjoy the new car!

Edit: maybe look at a BMW 320i if you can. They're very reasonably priced; probably not a whole lot more than the Civic. Still buckets of fun. Even if you need an auto, the ZF8 is brilliant.

SnoopDouggyDougg > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 14:32

My suggestion go with white, since it has no clear coat. And just seal it opti-coat. It's 5 year durable sealant that bonds to the paint.

This is after dealing with the common paint issues on my Fiji blue pearl 8th gen coupe since it was 2.5 years old when the paint was flaking off the car in the rear window channel and c pillar, clear coat failure white marks on the roof, and crows feet on the hood. Wrote letter to Honda of America, then had to meet with dealer service manager, had to take it back when dealer rep came in, then had to get 3 outside estimates. Finally after 5 months the Hood, Roof, Rear quarters repainted. This year the rest of the areas not repainted failed. Got the trunk repainted and front fenders repainted as well as the hood again and mentioned that the door was failing as well to the service manager when he inspected the car again. Picked the car up and noticed they didn't repaint the passenger door. Had to take the car back and get that repainted. Honda wouldn't repainted the drivers side door even though 95% of the car was repaint. No loaner or rental was provided the first 2 times, got it the third because I bitched. I paid the 900 bucks to have the drivers door repainted since I was tired of the bs for a car that never has been in a accident. Waiting till the paint cures so I seal it again, no sense in wetsanding it or buffing it till I can top it.

Bad taste in my mouth in the way I was treated by Honda and tried to blame it me the entire time. This is while it was their fault for a car that has been babied since day one and only has 27K on it. The car was washed every week, sealed, and spotless. I have been detailing for years and never seen a car do this. The problem is that not enough clear is put on at the factory to provide adequate UV protection.

There is a tsb for the 9th gens paint as well, noticed that well in the service managers office on most of the colors for 2012, i'm sure that 2013 will be listed on a tsb in the near future.

multiple wheels for each day of the week > Thunder
08/21/2014 at 16:55

buy the up level and swap seats others have done it already it should not be hard to sell/trade with someone who has a ST1... I have a St2

Shiftedamp > Thunder
05/11/2015 at 04:26

Lol to you thinking the focus is fast and needing the radar detector...

Shiftedamp > GTI MkVII
05/11/2015 at 04:29

The god damn volkswagons are always so expensive and lacking power for their price point. However, they do always have the nicest/fanciest interiors.

GTI MkVII > Shiftedamp
05/11/2015 at 07:33

Have you driven a Mk7? “Lacking power” has never crossed my mind once in my last year of owning one.

igoslow > Thunder
06/15/2017 at 09:04

Thunder,

Do you still have/would you send me a copy of your spreadsheet? I’m currently in the throws of a similar situation...with the very same models you mentioned here 3 years ago!!

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Thanks!

Thunder > igoslow
06/15/2017 at 09:53

Sure, igoslow. I just dug it up - version 6; what I posted the pic of above was version 4.

Let me know if you are unable to get to it at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByMchm3B6MAaYjFlQThiSzlpa00